Poe’s Law: Fundamentalism and Parody
Have you ever seen a story about someone saying something so crazy that you wondered “is this serious or is this a joke?” Poe’s Law says that it is impossible to tell parodies of fundamentalism from good-faith expressions of it. The law is stated by RationalWiki:
Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing.
The graph above attempts to represent Poe’s Law in visual form. It takes a few seconds to see some of the humorous patterns expressed in the simple drawing. An extreme fundamentalist will see everything as real fundamentalism and the extreme rationalist will see everything as parody. People in the middle are left wondering, and frequently laughing.
I found out about Poe’s Law during a discussion about whether ChristWire was a serious site or not. The consensus is that this site is parody, but that it is almost indistinguishable from actual crazy conservatism.
What? The Colbert Report is Satirical?
One of the funniest examples related to this principle was the Ohio State University study which showed that a lot of conservatives don’t “get” that Stephen Colbert’s show is satirical:
Using data from an experiment (N = 332), we found that individual-level political ideology significantly predicted perceptions of Colbert’s political ideology. Additionally, there was no significant difference between the groups in thinking Colbert was funny, but conservatives were more likely to report that Colbert only pretends to be joking and genuinely meant what he said while liberals were more likely to report that Colbert used satire and was not serious when offering political statements. Conservatism also significantly predicted perceptions that Colbert disliked liberalism.
Test Yourself!
Take a look at these seven sites compiled at RationalWiki. Three are parodies of fundamentalism and four are (attempted) serious sites.
- Landover Baptist Church
- 4 Step Proof for God of the Bible
- OBJECTIVE: Ministries
- Rapture Ready
- Time Cube
- Chick Tract – The Last Generation
- True Christian Church of Christ
In any case, there are and have been a lot of religions whose beliefs are easily mistaken for satire. Some find it hard to believe that Scientology really teaches things like the alien Xenu planting billions of people in volcanoes and blowing them up with hydrogen bombs 75 million years ago or that the Latter Day Saints movement really teaches that Joseph Smith used gold plates to write the Book of Mormon before the gold plates ascended into heaven.
I wrote about Rapture Ready in 2008. I don’t know why anything shocks me anymore.
http://politicalcartel.org/2008/07/02/are-you-rapture-ready/
What do you think about Larry David’s crying Piss Jesus bit he did on his HBO show this weekend…
Was it disrespectful or was it just a funny bit…lol.
Also, do you think that him being Jewish ramped up the debate, and if he were Catholic, would that have been permissable…
For the record, I watched it twice,and I thought it was a funny bit,that was a bit edgy.
That’s why I like Larry David, and all the other comedians I get too work with,but they are definetly not PC…
I’m not familiar with what you are referencing. Is there a video clip online somewhere that you can link here?
I am searching for it, but they may not have posted it yet..it’s not on Youtube now.It was the latest episode of ”Curb Your Enthusiasm”…
But here is a link to an article on it..
http://www.frumforum.com/larry-davids-piss-christ
If I find it soon, I will post a link here, but if I can not, HBO re-runs that show a lot, so we may have to wait until you see it ther for your reflections..
Thanks.
Haha, that sounds pretty funny to me. Especially the witnesses thinking the tear is a miracle.
It sounds very much like Larry David and his humor isn’t for everybody. I don’t have sympathy for the people who don’t ever watch his show, but hear about something like this from their preacher and get “offended.” Lighten up.
Mr Manes…If you look at Michaels thread on the Sarah Kruzan case, you will see that I am going to be on a national radio show tonight about the case, and I would like to get Michael to call in and contribute his views on the case…
I know it is short notice, but the show is at 7pm west coast time and 10pm east coast time.
I would be happy to give you my cel number,if we can do it privately,so J will not harras me…lol
but I do not want to misrepresent his article,I want him to be on the show via a call in and voice his own opinion.
Check that out and if you could help that out, that may be a good bit of PR for all of you..
what do you think…
…yeah, lighten up…i am with you….lol.
check it out, it was hilarious…yo see I am somewhat consistently/inconsistent…but that is a part of being human, and it’s more fun like that…thanks man.
I sent you an e-mail to the address you used to leave comments here. Let me know if you don’t get it.
That guy who put up the stink though about the ‘Curb Your Enthusiasm’ episode is always having irrational reactions to things tangentially relevant to Catholicism, but then I think that’s his job. I just thought it showed an extreme lack of self-awareness for him to say that Catholics were being ridiculed in a way that wasn’t happening to Jews or Muslims. Riiiiight. Love persecution much?
David, ‘Curb’ is mostly about the pains and pleasures of being a cranky old upper class man.
http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2009/10/qa_bill_maher_o.php
To be fair, Larry David makes offensive jokes about all religions, including his own Jewish religion and culture,so you would have to be predisposed to being ‘offended’, and at that point, you probably woulod not be watching his show.
The stuff that Jeff Garlin says off camera, now, lets talk about offensive…
Do you think the episode where he joked about holocaust survivors was really appropriate, even for a jewish man to make. Remember he asked, do they have like a membership card.
The joke wasn’t that funny but it is hilarious that people couldn’t bring themselves to laugh about 9/11 but they could laugh at that. The things we choose to be *outraged* over…
I think that satire has a special spot. It holds nothing sacred, everything is up for ridicule. Challenging conventions is socially cathartic.
I love attending comedy clubs because of the interplay between the audience and entertainer. It is free speech in its purest, uninhibited by any restraints (other than club owner allotting a spot).
Comedians, please keep generating content that forces people to take a second look at everything. RIP George Carlin.
Yes,…I thought the joke nwas hilarious…I love Gilbert.
Maybe not everyone’s cup of tea,but…funny.
I think Lenny Bruce,Carlin,Pryor,and a lot of the female comedians have lampooned enough sacred topics so publicly, that after all the anger and disgust have subsided,we are left with a funny bit…and the positive results of opposing opinions having had a civil discussion about it.
Try finding a laugh like this at a Christian comedy show,I been to them, and it is not pretty,just as bad as Christian gangster rap…just does not cut it.
People need to ridicule things a bit to be able to nudge in to a real conversation about it, and maybe we,me,us,might stop tacking ourselves so seriously.
Sometimes an edgy joke can slap some sense into humanity…
I think you have a strong point. “Edgy Humor” usually means concepts that challenge convention wisdom or notions. Confronting ones ideas is the greatest personal liberation available.
You guys should check out some Louis CK and then get back to me on what you think.
I have seen that guy before. Most recently he was in The Invention Lying with Ricky Gervais….
I agree, joking about the taboo is educational and “cathartic”. Mohammedists and Rednecks are all such great targets. Anyone wanna hear a good black joke? Remember, “lighten up”.
Are women ever very funny. Hey, “…nothing sacred, everything is up for ridicule. Challenging conventions is socially cathartic”. I would agree.
Here comes the fundamentalist reaction.
Time & Place.
| Mohammedists and Rednecks are all such great targets. Anyone wanna hear a good black joke? Remember, “lighten up”
- Obviously not a patron of comedy clubs. Also remember it flows both ways. I’ve e seen both black and white comics rip on EVERYBODY.
|Are women ever very funny.
-Again, you should start going to comedy clubs, its all discussed -
I also love this clip because it explains in two short minutes the entirety of political conservatism and the Fox News Channel to boot:
Louis CK is brilliant, that was a funny routine…He’s right about the time machine thing,man,I don’t think I want to go back in to time,for the reasons he was speaking….lol.So Louis was speaking the truth..
Check out this indian comic, from India, not native American,he has some racial bits that are funny…check him out,his name is Russell Peters…
!xobile
hahaha
Anyone have a Muhamad joke to ease the tension. How many blacks were wiping their brows when they saw it was a Non- Black Muslim. Of course we havent seen the others involved. Oh well, its nothing to worry about, probably some socio economic thing.
Oh,now that you spelled it correctly, I understand what you are talking about…
I propose this,..why don’t you just drag that into a search engine and provide one for us…
…but you will have to spell it c-o-r-r-e-c-t-l-y….my anonymous friend.lol.
Now why he is searching for that…I have one of my own cartoons that was commisioned by MTV,until the black employees threatened to walk out if they aired it.
I also sent a link to an article on my blog about racist cartoons, which I think is relevant to the conversation.I have been on the recieving end of censorship,and,speaking to only the rational minds here, I must say that I find some of my people to be hyper sensitive about black jokes.
I know in some circumstances I fall into that trap, but only if I think the creator’s intent is to insult and demean us.
David pointed out something profound to me on the racist Halloween costume blog that I have to consider, what if the creator’s intention was purely benign…Why defer to the negative all the time…
I had to think about that, because, I like that positive outlook.
It changed my whole perspective, because why not be positive…I feel much better with a positive vibe, and all the negativity just makes me feel dirty…Thanks David.
http://jerrybrice.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/is-this-comic-more-racist-than-any-of-minecollege-students-are-upset/
I like this topic,it seeks to resolve rather than vilify, and I am with that.
J,I like you, you are predictable, but, the fact you are still hanging in there, exhibits to me that you are seeking enlightenment as well.
All I an say to you man, is that it is no problem in changing.If we/you drop our senseless hate, then we can get somewhere.
We are not going to physically fight over the internet, and I am impressed that we have not been deleted yet..respect is due here.
I am under no illusion that you will change anytime soon, you are obviously a teenager, so I forgive you, and actually you have entertained me.
I look forward to your comments, and I want to see you continue to pat yourself on the back for pwning some newbs that are in your head.